Lost Little Garden Interview - September, 2023

This interview was done to promote Beyond the Cage of Silence. Unfortunately, the site shutdown soon afterwards.

LG: What inspired you to create "Beyond the Cage of Silence" and what themes or emotions were you hoping to convey through the song?

JDP: The inspiration for the lyrics was my belief that we are all capable of overcoming self-doubt and achieving our dreams, no matter what emotional abusers and bullies might say.

Rob: Hi. Thanks for having us on Little Garden! It all started with the main verse riff. I thought that it had a really cool vibe, sorta reminiscent of early Saga to my ear. That was all the incentive I needed to develop it into a full song.  Little that I knew at the time that it would grow into the nine and a half minute juggernaut that you hear now!

As the music came together, I could see that it was turning into the type of song that would take the listener on a journey, similar to 70's prog rock like Stairway to Heaven. But as far as lyrics went I left that completely up to John. Upon hearing the lyrics he composed, I felt that they fit the music perfectly.

LG: Can you share some insights into the creative process behind the Trilogy of Silence and how this particular song fits into the larger narrative?

JDP: We came up with the ‘Trilogy of Silence’ idea when we had just released ‘Black Veil of Silence’ and decided that our second original would be a re-imagining of a song we had written years ago, coincidentally called ‘Beyond the Cage of Silence’. We do plan on writing a 3rd song to complete the trilogy, and are underway!

But there really is no larger narrative. In fact, lyrically and thematically, “Black Veil of Silence” and “Beyond the Cage of Silence” are completely unrelated apart from the word “silence” appearing in the title. I expect the 3rd part of the trilogy to be equally unrelated, but who knows where inspiration will lead us?

That said, we’re constantly being asked about creating a full-length album or EP, so maybe we can package the 3 songs of the Trilogy as such?

Rob: I think John said it well. We had no intention of creating a trilogy.  It wasn't until we noticed the recurrence of the word “Silence” that the idea of making a trilogy dawned on us. Sometimes songs just seem to come together in threes.  A similar thing happened with our covers of Suspended Animation (The Monks), Mouse In a Maze (Saga), and Private Life (Oingo Boingo). We released those three songs in succession and then realized that they were all in a similar prog rock vein. Since then, we've marketed those as a covers trilogy.

LG: "Beyond the Cage of Silence" has been described as a blend of classic rock, prog rock, and melodic metal. Can you elaborate on how you merged these genres to create a unique musical experience?

JDP: Personally, I’ve never really made any conscious decision to play any particular genre. To be honest, I’m not a fan of labels - I just like to make music that sounds pleasing to my ears.

Rob: Like John said, there was no conscious effort on our part to combine genres; it's just our backgrounds. Normally, our varied tastes don't come coalesce within the same song like they did with Beyond the Cage of Silence, but it was bound to happen at some point.

I did go through a process at one point to trim the song down to just the classic rock components, but I always felt that it was missing something when I did. Case in point, I did trim out a few minutes for the video, which led to chopping the entire guitar solo out! That was painful, but it was one of the few sections that we could do away with without adversely affecting the flow of the song.  Needless to say, for listening purposes, I far prefer the full song to the video edit.

LG: Rob Gravelle played all the guitars and keys in the song. Could you tell us more about the instrumentation and the role it plays in shaping the song's atmosphere?

JDP: As I see it, the clean guitars of the intro open the song with an atmosphere of reflection and melancholy. That continues on up to the second verse, which continues with clean guitars but introduces a bit more hope and anticipation thanks to Rob's chord voicings. We bring in some crunch guitars on the choruses, really building the feeling of motivation and wanting to “get it done”. Also the drums get more rhythmically intense during the later verses. We introduce distorted guitars in the instrumental bridges, perhaps representing the turmoil that the protagonist is going through, culminating in the slow double kick section with some interesting syncopations before the final choruses. I’ve talked about the guitar and flute solos later in this interview.

Rob: The keys played a subordinate role to the guitars.  I used them mostly for strings that would follow the chord progressions. It just made everything sound more polished and full. I have to admit that those strings during the chorus have been known to bring a tear to my eye on occasion. I hope that it elicits the same response in some of our listeners.

For the pre-chorus where John sings “So I'll leave the empty hours of dreaming...” I wanted a pedal tone similar to the one in Zeppelin's Four Sticks. My keys are a little more subtle in the mix, but that's the general sound that I was going for.

With the guitars, I went fairly large.  I love the textured guitar overlays you get in songs like The Eagles' Hotel California and, of course, Zeppelin's Stairway to Heaven. There are sections where there are literally a dozen guitars going on at once. Typically I would double each part, so maybe there'd be six separate parts at play.

LG: The song features a haunting guitar riff at the beginning. What was the inspiration behind this riff, and how does it set the tone for the rest of the composition?

JDP: See my previous answer. Perhaps Rob can elaborate on the inspiration behind the riff?

Rob: You know, I never thought of that riff as being “haunting”, but now that you mention it, the b flat before going back to the Asus4 chord does give it a dark overtone. It sort of reminds me of that old Dido song, “Thank You”. Of course, I drew inspiration from old Metallica, who borrowed the flat 2nd chord of the Phrygian mode extensively. Look at what you made me do; I've gone into full analytical mode!

I remember that, when I wrote the riff, I liked how the first Asus4 chord didn't resolve as it normally would, but instead went up to an A/Csus4 which resolved to the A/C (not an air conditioner, but a C Major with an A pedal tone underneath :-P). Followed by the Dm and a Bbadd11+, the whole riff takes on a decidedly moody vibe despite the use of mainly major chords.

LG: The lyrics of the song touch on themes of feeling trapped and alone. Can you discuss the lyrical inspiration and how you aimed to connect with listeners on a deeper emotional level?

JDP: Many of us (especially as kids) have been, perhaps unwittingly, been given messages like “speak only when you’re spoken to”, “you’ll never be good enough”, “why can’t you be more like <insert name>” etc.

I’m hoping to encourage anyone who endured that sort of thing to be able to rise above the noise, so to speak.

RG: What he said.

LG: "Beyond the Cage of Silence" builds to a powerful crescendo with an impressive guitar solo. Could you share your thoughts on the significance of this solo within the song's structure and message?

JDP: The song structure itself is really interesting and atmospheric. It’s also pretty nonstandard - I can’t explain why it works, but it just does!!

I find the guitar solo just seems to fit really well, as does the flute solo later in the song. The guitar solo upholds and accentuates the feeling of melancholy conveyed by the underlying pattern, but it’s following the fairly heavy instrumental bridge! The flute solo is like a relief when it comes in following the chorus. It’s like an island or oasis en route to beyond.

That said, it’s hard to explain these things. I really suggest readers listen to the music - I think it speaks louder and certainly clearer than I can.

Rob: Thanks so much.  I'm really happy with how the solo turned out.  Or, rather, both solos, as there are two distinct solos, one after the other.  The first one is played over the main verse riff, and the second solo section introduces a whole new section just for that solo.

I've been accused of being a bit of a shredder over the years. This was the perfect opportunity to show that I can play to the song, without any flash whatsoever.  In fact, I'm quite certain that there is nothing faster in either solo than eighth notes.

I really went for a classic feel, right down to the tones.  Although I tend to use amp modelling software these days, I remember choosing an old classic amp for the tone.  I also used plate reverb or something equally old school.

LG: Can you describe any specific challenges you encountered during the production, arrangement, or recording of the song and how you overcame them?

JDP: One in particular - when we got the track back from mastering, I could hear an apparent dropout in the lead vocal track that I could not hear in the unmastered mix. We went back to the mix, soloed each track  - and everything sounded great on the individual tracks. After probably 2 months of isolating tracks we traced the issue to an aggressive note on the bass guitar. When that note was played along with the vocal track it probably clipped something in the signal chain. We re-EQed the part in question and everything worked well after that.

Rob: As you might expect with a nine and a half minute song that's so heavily layered,mixing and mastering was no walk in the park. In fact, this song, more than any previously, went back and forth a lot during the mastering stage. One standout issue was that the rhythm guitars were too bright in the original mix for some systems. Rather than try to EQ them by ear, John used some sort of software that automatically optimizes the EQing.  Worked rather well if I do say so myself!

LG: How do you feel your individual musical backgrounds and influences contributed to the creation of this song, and what did each of you bring to the collaboration?

JDP: That’s one of those things that’s nearly impossible to answer. We’ve been writing together since the early ‘90s and it’s one of those things that ‘just works’, and it has since the days of Sudden Thunder, Ivory Knight, Dr. Squish etc. I think our backgrounds and influences are quite different and diverse.

Rob: Both John and I love classic rock/metal and prog rock, so there's never any wrangling necessary to blend our styles together. Having said that, I wrote the music and John composed the lyrics and vocal melodies, so you might hear some influences in one that isn't so obvious in the other.  For example if you detect any Led Zeppelin or Rush vibes in the music, that would be my doing.  I will say that there is a bit of Queensrÿche in there from both of us.  Of course, that's what I'm hearing.  People have noticed all sorts of influences in our songs that we never picked up on.  Sometimes they even name bands that I've barely ever heard of. Nonetheless, I would never discount anything because you can hear a song once when you're twelve years old and bits of it find their way into a song decades later.

LG: What do you hope listeners will take away from their experience with "Beyond the Cage of Silence," and what kind of impact do you believe it can have on its audience?

JDP: As I’ve said before I hope to encourage everyone to rise above the noise created by emotional abuse, negativity etc.

Rob: You just never know how a song will resonate with people. I can only write what comes from within, so you just have to hope that the material speaks to people in the same way it did to you. Now that Beyond the Cage of Silence has been out for a bit now, we've had a really good chance to gauge the general reaction to it. Needless to say, both John and I have been really pleased with the reception. We've had some reviews stating that it's more than a song, but an anthem for people who want to go beyond what ever it is that's holding them back in their lives. And that's really what music is all about isn't it? Inspiring people to live their best lives no matter what forces conspire to keep them down.

LG: Could you provide some insights into the role of emotion in your music-making process, particularly in the context of this song?

JDP: I’m not really clear on how to answer that. As I see it, all music is emotion expressed using a palette of sound. Emotion is what differentiates music from mere sequences of notes.

Rob: Rik Emmett (Triumph) said it best in Magic Power: “It's not just a game of notes, it's the sounds inside your soul.” John and I don't just throw together a bunch of cool-sounding parts; we really write from the heart. Although I tend to focus on the instrumentation, there is no less emotion involved in the writing process there. It's all about matching the chords, notes, and scales with the emotion(s) that your trying to evoke. Music is the perfect vehicle for that, which is probably why music is such a vital and enduring art form.

LG: "Beyond the Cage of Silence" is often regarded as a masterpiece of classic rock prog metal. How do you view its place in the broader landscape of music, and what sets it apart from other compositions?

JDP: Thanks so much for saying so! Really, I just make music. I’ll defer to others to comment on its place in the broader landscape and what sets it apart. I think those details are really in the ears of the listeners, so to speak.

Rob: Thanks so much for calling it a “masterpiece”.  It certainly is the crown jewel in my career as a songwriter and artist. I think that one of the main ingredients that sets Beyond the Cage of Silence apart from your typical rock song is that it does manage to seamlessly merge several different genres into one coherent piece. I think that Beyond the Cage of Silence is classic rock at its core, but then it follows a more prog rock arrangement and includes some heavy passages that border on classic metal.

LG: Can you discuss any future projects or collaborations that you have in the pipeline, and how they might build upon the foundation laid by this song and the Trilogy of Silence?

JDP: Lots of stuff coming down the pipe! As always though, we never reveal exactly what, until release day. I’ll give you a tidbit, though - Rob will be making his debut on the bass guitar on what will likely the next song release. Another tidbit - we will eventually create the third part of the Trilogy :).

Rob: I don't want to give away too much, but I will say that our next song will be a cover of an 80s prog rock song.  I think that it just might be the most progressive – and technical – song we've ever done! It's being mastered as we speak.

We also have lined up a special guest or two for an up-coming cover tune. It's gonna be a rocker!

And, of course, part III of the Trilogy of Silence is in the works.  It's a more straight ahead melodic metal piece than either part I or II.

LG: As artists, what do you find most fulfilling about creating music that resonates with a diverse audience, crossing genre boundaries and reaching people on a profound level?

JDP: I’m personally humbled that diverse people take time from their busy lives to listen to music, lyrics, and video that I’ve been a part of creating! Thank you all!

Rob: It's really gratifying when people tell you that your songs resonated with them in some way. We can only write what is meaningful to us.  As such, we can only hope that other people can relate to our themes and lyrics. In the case of Beyond the Cage of Silence, I think that feelings of inadequacy and longing for freedom is one that is fairly universal, but it's still nice to see people deriving inspiration from it.

LG: In conclusion, what advice would you offer to aspiring musicians and songwriters based on your experiences with "Beyond the Cage of Silence" and your musical journey as a whole?

JDP: DO get your stuff out there. The world needs to hear YOUR voice. Be yourself!

Rob: Don't live your live based on other people's expectations of you. It's your life to live. If you have a desire to express yourself in whatever medium, you owe it to yourself to see where that leads.

If you want to follow us, our website is gravelleperinbam.com. We're also on Facebook and YouTube.